I drove an e60 M5 today !

"TDIGuy" (owenrosier) 09/22/2014 at 00:42 • Filed to: None

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So I was talking to one of my friends from high school today and I was asking about his 2008 BMW 335i he got last summer and he had told me it was totaled in a front on collision. I was shocked and couldn't believe it didn't kill him when I saw the pictures of the damage. Immediatly my next question was what are you driving now and he told me he just bought an e60 M5, so then I told him I had to see it. A few hours later he shows up in the new M5 and I wasn't all that impressed because it was dark and I've never really cared for the e60 body style but then I got in it and was a little more interested just because I have never been in such a nice place to be when it comes to driving. The interior was comfortable, welcoming, and unassuming as is the rest of the car. If you didn't know any better you would't know that it had a 500 hp V-10 under the hood. Then I asked if I could drive it and he said go for it since he knows I drive a 3 pedal car more than he does. My first thought was this car is super tame, almost too tame, it felt as if it was much slower than a 500hp V-10 should be. Then he reached over and hit the M button on the steering wheel and the care immediately changed. I came to a dead stop and rowed through first and second, into third at 8,000 rpm and I was astonished to see myself already doing 95. I have never driven something so quick and with such an exotic sound. That v-10 makes and incredible noise and compared to the 300 hp mustang I used to drive the M5 would have walked all over it. This car was amazing and this was definitely and Oppo moment for me. Just thought I'd share, Night everyone.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > TDIGuy 09/22/2014 at 00:46

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They sound very very very nice.

Steve in Manhattan > TDIGuy 09/22/2014 at 00:46

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If you ignore the body that surrounds it, that M5 is pure genius. And when you drive it, you can't see anything outside ....

Manuél Ferrari > TDIGuy 09/22/2014 at 00:48

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Nioce!

Manuél Ferrari > Steve in Manhattan 09/22/2014 at 00:48

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I like how it looks. I'm not a big fan of the standard E60. But the fender flares and different front and rear ends "fix" the looks for me.

Steve in Manhattan > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 01:16

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You're right - that tweaking does it for that car. Just let me be able to drive one ...!!!

Manuél Ferrari > Steve in Manhattan 09/22/2014 at 01:24

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Me too!

Funny cause earlier today I was looking at prices on AutoTrader. I have an E90 M3 and I was wondering how much a later year E60 M5 would be to buy compared to what my car is worth today.

It's CRAZY how big the markup is for the stick shift cars. I know SMG is expensive to repair but the markup is still insane. I found two 2010 cars near me that were the same exact price. One had about 48,000 miles on it and was stick. The other had 12,000 miles on it and was SMG.

The owners who bought stick shift cars are so happy. Their cars held value much better

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 01:41

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The 6MTs are very rare. I encountered a lot of E60 M5s at work and never saw one in the MT.

Steve in Manhattan > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 01:43

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I would say drive both transmissions and see where you fall ... you might be surprised ....

motusid > TDIGuy 09/22/2014 at 02:34

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Nice!

I just love the design of the E60. I think this is one of the best designed cars during the time that Mr. Bangle was at the helm.

BKRM3 > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 04:05

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Normally I'd say the price difference is warranted and the manual is the box to have but in this car everyone is just scared to death of having to replace SMG components, like the $6,000 pump. The E60 M5 is too big for a 6MT and it was designed with the SMG as the primary gearbox. If I had to own one of these, it would the the flappy paddle. I know, I can scarcely believe I said it!

Cé hé sin > Steve in Manhattan 09/22/2014 at 05:02

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If memory serves they were only ever sold in America, which seems a little odd.

Too many M's > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 05:06

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Another thing is the 6-mt was only available on 08 and newer cars. The crazy deals on E60s are the 06-07s. I was looking at an 09 E60 6-spd w/45k miles around $38k earlier this year. Silverstone on the Indy-Red leather.

TDIGuy > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 09:07

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Yeah this one is a 6MT and i'll tell you what this thing had just about the best clutch I have ever used. It was just so easy to drive it was crazy.

TDIGuy > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/22/2014 at 09:08

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Agree'd I felt like I was driving a viper at the low revs just because of the V-10 growl

Manuél Ferrari > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 09/22/2014 at 13:16

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If only I could go back in time and buy a used 6MT E60 M5 3 years ago. I bet it would still be worth what I paid, if not a little more.

Manuél Ferrari > Steve in Manhattan 09/22/2014 at 13:24

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I've driven both versions of the E46 M3. I ended up buying the SMG one only because it was so hard to find a clean stick shift.

I've never driven either M5 (or any M5 for that matter!).

Maybe one day I'll graduate from M3s to M5s :)

Manuél Ferrari > BKRM3 09/22/2014 at 13:26

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I can't believe you said it!

Surely someone has to be making that pump for less money. There is profit potential here! If nobody else has thought of it we should start an SMG pump making business!

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > Steve in Manhattan 09/22/2014 at 13:26

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Having driven the SMG a multitude of times in different circumstances, I would say get the 6MT over the SMG. The SMG is a tale of two extremes. In town it is either way too iron-fist or far to sluggish, but on the Track it is exceptional. However, the DCT introduced in E9x is phenomenal and I would probably choose it over the 6MT.

Manuél Ferrari > Too many M's 09/22/2014 at 13:27

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That seems like a nice price! Was it in good shape?

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 13:28

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We'll see what happens with the E9x M3's with the DCT vs 6MT. Although, unlike the M5 there were ton of M3's made with the 6MT. I think the M3 is better with the DCT but we'll see what people think over time.

Manuél Ferrari > TDIGuy 09/22/2014 at 13:29

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Mmm. Tasty. V10. Nice clutch. Luxury interior.

I don't care how much it costs to maintain. These cars are a hell of a deal right now.

Manuél Ferrari > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 09/22/2014 at 13:33

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I have an E90 M3 DCT. I never drove the 6MT car because my only other car at the time was stick and I wanted DCT for heavy traffic. I wonder how the 6MT feels.

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 13:35

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Its a BMW-Gertag 6 speed, therefore a damn good transmission, but I think the DCT matches the engine much better. Just banging down shifts with the DCT is too much fun! Reliability of the DCT (100k miles +) hasn't really been tested yet so we will see how they hold up in the long run.

Manuél Ferrari > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 09/22/2014 at 13:44

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It is really fun to put the car in M mode and snap off hard upshifts at WOT. The DCT is well suited to the car, especially when you're driving really fast. The engine revs so fast that it could be hard to shift with a stick when driving hard.

I wish there could be a stick + DCT combo. Then I could switch back and forth for ultimate enjoyment. But that's not possible...

Too many M's > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 14:07

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It was pretty darn good. One owner who was an older gentleman who used it to tour through Germany. I really was a bit giddy having the V10 controlled via all my feet instead of paddles. The SMG is fine enough in an aggressive driving manner, but for my daily use I would grow tired of it.

If only my wife could get used to the Indy-red leather it would be in my garage right now.

Too many M's > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 09/22/2014 at 14:11

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I think the DCT is fantastic tech, but like the SMG for me I would get bored on my commute. There's very little stop and go so I don't have to worry about that.

I've seen a couple 100k+ mile DCTs still running strong from the forums. Check out the high mileage thread on m3post, there's some decent numbers out there.

BKRM3 > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 15:10

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Hahahaha. I'm not sure the demand is there to justify the R&D costs. I'm sure that thing isn't just a simple pump, as the name makes it sound. Knowing BMW it's probably impossibly over-engineered.

Manuél Ferrari > Too many M's 09/22/2014 at 15:19

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Too bad it didn't have a different color interior!

I read once that the manual overheats during hard track driving. Not sure if true.

Manuél Ferrari > Too many M's 09/22/2014 at 15:20

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That's my problem too. I mostly drive my 997 for my commute because I live close to work and get bored of the paddles. But I love paddles when driving to business meetings in traffic or during spirited drives.

Manuél Ferrari > BKRM3 09/22/2014 at 15:22

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Then maybe we can learn to repair it!

Too many M's > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 15:35

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Can't speak on the trackability, I have a friend who had an M6 that he took to the Ring for fun but it was a heavy pig compared to his Z4M track toy. But his Z4 couldn't hit 200+ mph!

Too many M's > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 15:40

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I battle with myself almost daily whether or not I should make the change to paddles. I guess with my car ADD it's something to try for a bit.

Manuél Ferrari > Too many M's 09/22/2014 at 16:15

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Wow you and your friends have a lot of cool M cars!! Dat Z4M is awesome.

Haha yeah the piggy M6 isn't great in the corners but 200+ MPH in the straights would be fun!

Manuél Ferrari > Too many M's 09/22/2014 at 16:18

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I would go insane if I only had one car. I love having both. I like stick for day to day driving. But the paddles in my E46 and E90 M3s are great for traffic.

The DCT in the E90 is the best for traffic as I can just use auto mode if I'm driving somewhere unfamiliar and trying to pay attention to navigation and my surroundings.

SMG's auto mode sucks but is still better than not having it at all when you're in traffic and want to hold the wheel with one hand and use your other hand to tell your navigation to give you a new route to get around traffic.

I live an hour south of LA. Where I live the traffic is not that bad. But if I go to LA during rush hour all bets are off. You often have to check your nav to see if there is an accident on your freeway so that you can re-route to another freeway.

Too many M's > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 16:29

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He sold them both before he moved back go the States, not much space for them there :)

I've been trying to find his Z4M for a bit, I have been wanting to upgrade my E36M track car for a bit now. Can't link up with the new owner for the life of me.

Manuél Ferrari > Too many M's 09/22/2014 at 16:56

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So jelly that you got the real E36 M3 over there! Ours was watered down

Too many M's > Manuél Ferrari 09/22/2014 at 17:32

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I wish :( Mine is a watered down US version. I'm going to spice it up this winter though with a Euro S50 or S54

Manuél Ferrari > Too many M's 09/22/2014 at 17:54

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Oh nice! How much will one of those engines run you?

Too many M's > Manuél Ferrari 09/23/2014 at 02:41

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If everything goes to plan I hope to get the whole swap done for about $7k. 3-4k of that being the engine.

Manuél Ferrari > Too many M's 09/23/2014 at 18:09

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Not too bad!

Too many M's > Manuél Ferrari 09/23/2014 at 18:37

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yeah, hopefully it stays in budget. I don't think I'll add up the receipts though :)

Which flavor 911 do you have? If I ever sell my E90 a P-car is my next step.

Manuél Ferrari > Too many M's 09/23/2014 at 18:44

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Haha that's what I do. I put the receipts in a drawer but don't add them up.

I don't want to know how much it cost total to redo the flooring, paint and make repairs when I bought a house. Better not to know!

My current stable is:

2004 M3 Coupe SMG

2010 997.2 C2 6MT

2011 E90 M3 DCT

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Manuél Ferrari 09/24/2014 at 23:07

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Fix everything except the Dame Edna headlights. I'd still drive one.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BKRM3 09/24/2014 at 23:09

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I'm just going to go ahead and pretend I never read this.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Too many M's 09/24/2014 at 23:11

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What's your screen name over there? Mine is the same as here.

BKRM3 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/25/2014 at 06:32

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I know, I know. You don't have to rub it in...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BKRM3 09/25/2014 at 08:44

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I'd love to experience the SMG, DCT, etc. at some point, but I just don't think I could give up driving a standard on a daily basis. If I moved somewhere with a compute an hour both ways in gridlock, then maybe I'll consider it.

BKRM3 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/25/2014 at 09:33

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The M5 is just the right kind of car for flappy paddle. It suits the engine, it suits the size of the car, etc. and the SMG III gearbox is pretty darn good. I had a friend who had one (LeMans Blue!) and it was an unbelievably good time. I'm all about 6MT in a fun, tossable sports car but I'm not trying to row my own in a big family boat just to say I did. It's more about the character of the car for me than the fact that I'm shifting something myself. (Of course, I'm completely ignoring potential maintenance/repair costs here...)

The really tricky decision is which gearbox to pick when the chassis in question truly fits more than one role (i.e., track weapon AND family car). You should really drive an E9X M3 with the DCT sometime just to see what it's like. I drove at the dealer back in 2009 and I occasionally drive my friend's E92 DCT. It's a great gearbox and quicker/easier on the track. If I had a trafficky commute that's the gearbox I'd have because of the automatic mode. So, is DCT therefore actually BETTER on the track AND on the street? Yes, technically. Have I lost my mind? No: my E90, like yours, is about fun and engagement on the street and learning to be a better driver when we take it out on the track. The 6MT suits our needs better and that's why it's right for us on this particular platform!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BKRM3 09/25/2014 at 10:00

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Yeah, I definitely need to try it out sometime. Definitely faster at the track, and a great solution for those who have to deal with traffic (or a wife/gf who can't drive a manual). I just feel like I'd get bored with it, and the car would end up in automatic mode all the time. "Engagement" is exactly the right word for what I'm looking for when I'm driving. I want all the feels, the sounds, the sights, the smells...

BKRM3 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/25/2014 at 10:32

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With the way I use my car, I'd be bored with the DCT in a week. My current circumstances give me all of the good things about a manual and none of the bad. Our move is tomorrow though and my morning commute has the potential to suck, but I'll figure out an alternative soon enough. Plus the arrival of the truck in the next month or two will make the M into a "sometimes" car, which will be different, I think, in a good way.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BKRM3 09/25/2014 at 10:45

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As much as I love daily-ing mine, I'm also on the hunt for a cheap winter/dogs/fun 4x4 to pair with it.

BKRM3 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/25/2014 at 13:43

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True dat. Even though the E90 CAN do everything it's just going to be nice to have a 4x4. The northeast is rough during the winter man...and I don't even have dogs to drive around!